Response to the “17 Points of the True Church” tract of the LDS.

            We recently received an e-mail stating the following: “I see that you bash Mormons, lets see if your church is true, does your belief follow the Bible’s strict rules on the points of the true church?  I doubt you’ll post it on your site because you can’t answer it because your wrong, the Mormon Church does all of the points below, does yours?”  The writer then gave seventeen areas to respond to.  We took the liberty of numbering those areas to make it easier for the reader with our responses.  Actually, the list is not an original list but simply a copy of the LDS tract Seventeen Points of the True Church.  A quick response to the tract is simply who says these are the seventeen points of the True Church? Our response to each follows the question under the heading of answer.

            We contacted the Mormon who sent the e-mail and sent him a copy of this response to check and correct if he found any mistakes.  After two weeks we once again notified him that this response was about to be posted and published in our next newsletter, but was open to any errors he might find. 

1. Christ organized the Church (Eph. 4:11-14)

Answer:  We can agree with this point that Jesus Christ organized the Church.  However, according to Joseph Smith’s statements all the churches were wrong since the death of the last apostle.  Thus there was no Christian church for seventeen hundred years.  That can only mean that Jesus Christ must have failed.  Since my Jesus could never fail, Joseph Smith must be wrong here.

2. The true church must bear the name of Jesus Christ (Eph. 5:23)

Answer:  There is no question that Jesus Christ is the head of the church.  The reference is one of many stating that Christ is the head but it does not say that the church must bear the name of Jesus Christ.  Nowhere in the Scriptures are we given the name of any church bearing Jesus’ name on it.  The book of Revelations, for example, lists seven churches, none of which is named after Jesus Christ, yet He is the head of them.  Paul identifies the believers in Corinth as “the church of God which is at Corinth.”  To those in Galatia, he identifies them as the churches at Galatia and similarly he refers to the church of the Thessalonians in both his letters to Thessalonians.  Thus Paul is either writing to false churches or the Mormon teachings are wrong.  Then there is another problem.  When the LDS church was founded it was simply called “the Church of Christ.”  According to David Whitmer in his book An Address to All Believers in Christ this was the name given by the Lord.¹  Despite that it was given by the Lord the church voted in 1834 to change the name to “The Church of the Latter-Day Saints,” completely leaving out the Lord’s name.²  Four years later Joseph Smith changed the name to what it is presently known as.  Thus, the rule did not apply to the early LDS church which went against the Lord in changing the name in the first place.  So the reasoning you have here is not based on facts  

3. The true church must have a foundation of Apostles and Prophets (Eph. 2:19-20)

Answer:  Eph.2:19;20 states: “Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.”  Paul is describing the foundation of the apostles and prophets here it is clearly the teaching that the Old Testament prophetic word and the New Testament apostolic word form the basis of our Christian faith and teaching.  Through the preaching of the Gospel, the apostolic ministry brought the New Testament Church into existence.  Here we, as Christians, follow those teachings and do not add to those words as the Mormon Church does with the book of Mormons.  One interesting fact is that the Mormon Church actually reverses the order of the offices.  In the Mormon Church government, the prophet sits on top, over the apostles which completely contradicts the teaching in the Scriptures.  In 1 Corinthians 12:28 it clearly states; “and God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily the prophets. . . .

4. The true church must have the same organization as Christ’s Church (Eph. 4:11-14)

Answer:  We agree with this point and our Christian Churches do have all the requirements seen in your reference.  However, as already pointed out, this is not the case with the Mormon Church.

5. The true church must claim divine authority (Heb. 4:4-10)

Answer:  Again, the Christian Church believes and follows the Words of the Scripture as the divine authority and follow only its teaching.  

6. The true church must have no paid ministry (Acts 20:33-34; John 10:11-13)

Answer:  Throughout 1 Corinthians 9, Paul defends the idea of paid ministers while explaining why he chose not to receive compensation.  Paul makes it clear that the reason he did not receive compensation from the Corinthians was because they were immature and selfish.  Nowhere does the epistle imply that a paid ministry is unbiblical.  Paul was a tent maker but he never says it was wrong for a minister to receive a salary for his work for the Lord.  In fact, he strongly supports the idea of a paid minister.  In 1 Corinthians 9:4-5, he establishes the fact that ministers must eat, pay their bills, and support their families.  He compares them to soldiers who never go to war at their own expense.  Then, in verse 11, he asks if it is wrong for a pastor who feeds his flock spiritually to partake of their carnal things.  Then in verse 13 he further reminds the people that the priests in the Temple lived by things of the Temple.  Going back to Numbers we find the tribe of Levi were given as a tithe (tenth) from all the children of Israel to sustain themselves.  Then in 1 Timothy 5:17-18 we read, “The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching.  For Scripture says, “Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain,” and the worker deserves his wages.  On the other hand salaries are not uncommon in the Mormon Church.  The D&C 42:70ff., 43:12 and 70:12ff.describe how Joseph Smith himself received financial support.  In addition, there are many workers in the Mormon Church who receive salaries for their labor.  The church employs many secretaries, lawyers, and public relations people, seminary professors, institute teachers and others who receive paychecks from the church.  The general authorities and the governing board members of the LDS church also receive compensation for their position in the church.  These salaries are quite large compared to the salary the public is made to believe they receive.  Reports indicate that the Mormon Church receives tithes in excess of two million dollars per day.  Reports further demonstrate that they own and operate businesses and have a financial enclave second only to the Bank of America.  What is this money or profits used for? DOES TRUTH MATTER?

7. The true church must baptize by immersion (Matt. 3:13-16)

Answer:  Yes, Jesus was clearly baptized by immersion.  History shows, that all the Christian churches have recognized baptism since the apostolic age, and practices in three different modes, aspersion (sprinkling), affusion (pouring), and immersion (dipping).  John the Baptist introduced baptism into the New Testament, and his baptism is referred to as “for the remission of sins,” or, “baptism of repentance.”  Jesus went through the process to show His relationship to mankind and had no sin. 

In Matthew 28:19, Jesus tells us to make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.  He does not describe any method to use.  In Acts 9: 18-19 Saul who was cured of being blind is in a house and baptized.  There is no indication they left the house for the baptism.  There are numerous other references where people were baptized with no indication of a body of water being present. (see Act 19:5 for one example)  More important, there is no mention of sin being taken away in your baptism.

8. The true church must bestow the gift of the Holy Spirit by the laying .on of hands (Acts 8:14-17)

Answer:  In Acts 2:4 the Holy Spirit fills the apostles, no hands were placed on them.  Yes, we can also be filled with the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands, but lets not limit His activities.

9. The true church must practice divine healing (Mark 3:14-15)

Answer:  Your reference proves that the practice of healing is given to the true believers of Jesus Christ and not to any church body.  The true church is not a denomination but made up of believers of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

10. The true church must teach that God and Jesus are separate and distinct individuals (John 17:11; 20:17)

Answer:  Ah, here we start to part company.  Yes, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are three separate individuals made from one substance and are one which the true Christian Church refers to as the trinity.  God the Father sent His Only begotten Son here to earth to pay for our sins and redeem us so that we may once again be His children and have eternal life.

11. The true church must teach that God and Jesus have bodies of flesh and bone (Luke 23:36-39; Acts 1:9-11; Heb 1:1-3)

Answer:  Your references tell us that Jesus came in the flesh, which He clearly did.  However, nothing in the Bible indicates that God the Father has bones or a human type body and generally indicates the opposite.  Actually, John 4:24 clearly states, “God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and truth.”  To be omnipresent as the Bible teaches He must be spirit and not have a body.

12. The officers must be called by God (Heb. 4:4; Ex. 28:1; 40:13-16)

Answer: yes, God calls the ministers, elders, deacons and teachers.

13.  The true church must claim revelation from God (Amos 3:7)

Answer:  Do we not already have the revelation from God given to us in His instruction manual called the Bible?  When someone claims revelations from God and some of them turn out not to be true which god is giving them out?

14. The true church must be a missionary church (Matt 28:19-20)

Answer:  Yes, the true church must be a missionary church to bring people to Jesus Christ. 

15. The true church must be a restored church (Acts 3:19-20)

Answer:  Once again, if the true church is the people and not the buildings or denominations such as the LDS then as it is with must Christian Churches the members ask forgiveness for their sins and repent of their wrong doings as the references follow the same principles?  They do not need an organization or building to do this.

16. The true church must practice baptism for the dead (1 Cor. 15:16&29)

Answer:  No!  The Bible clearly teaches that we have one opportunity to eternal life and salvation and that is while we are here living on earth.  Those who have died already faced their judgment and the practice of baptism of the dead does nothing for them.

17. “By their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matt. 7:20)

Answer:  Yes, The fruits tell the whole story. 

            I need to add some small notes to this reply to respond to the other e-mails we received in this area.  The biggest question is the “Other Testament” or the Book of Mormon.  This book is suppose to be a translation of the writings of Moroni, who was supposed to be a great warrior on the Nephites.  Moroni when he died the Mormon Church teaches became an angel and appeared to Joseph Smith in 1823.  For starters, that should send up a bunch of red flags.  Does the Mormon Church really believe in evolution in that humans evolve to angels?  If that is true and Moroni was a great leader, why did he not become a god as the Mormon Church teachers men can become?  The next problem that should upset any follower of Joseph Smith is the fact that he used occultic stones to translate the plates. 

            Having read the Book of Mormon, I need several questions to be answered.  From a scientific point let us start with the so-called original crossing.  Ether 2:20 (page 491 in the 1981 Ed.) says that the Lord instructed Jared to make a hole in the top and one in the bottom of each barge.  Logic would tell us that such holes would fill the barges with water and sink them, but as we read on in this passage we find the purpose of the holes in both top and bottom is to provide air should the barges be turned over in the storm forgetting that the barge would fill with water normally under such conditions.  That is to say nothing of what would happen to the supplies, animals and people every time the barge flipped.  Later in Ether 6:4-11 it says that the crossing took some 344 days and that the barges were blown by furious winds towards the promised land speedily.  Yet, if they traveled at say 10 m.p.h. for the 5,000 miles of the trip it would take them only 21 days.  Then too, in 1 Nephi 2:6 (page 4) the people walked from Jerusalem to the river Laman in Arabia some 255 miles away in three days with their supplies and senior citizens. 

            One of the most confusing points of the Book of Mormon is the use of the compass.  The index on page 658 indicates that the Liahona is a compass.  This Liahona in described as being in 1 Ne. 16:19; Alma 37:38-39 and other references.  It is described as being in a metal ball with two spindles.  The needles are made of brass even though a compass using the magnetic field of the earth must have iron needles.  Then too they are recording a writing from 600-592 B.C. whereas the compass was not in existence until the 13^th century.

            The Book of Mormon talks about those coming here to America, the promised land bring with them things like iron, barley, wheat, figs, olives, and grapes.  None of these were found in the Americas until after Columbus.  We could add numerous other products to this list but there are no archaeological proofs of any of the Mormon’s claims.

            One other point of question that needs to be answered is in regard to Joseph Smith’s corrections of the Bible.  As I understand the facts, the King James Version (KJV) of the Bible is the official translation that is used by the Mormon Church.  Yet Joseph Smith claimed there are many mistakes in it and actually authorized his own translation, known as the Inspired Version or the Joseph Smith Translation (JST).  If the KJV is wrong why do they still use it?  How could Joseph Smith translate the corrections without any knowledge of the Hebrew and Greek languages and not even using those manuscripts? 

No, I am not trying to bash the Mormons as the writer of the e-mail to us indicates, but only trying to reveal the true facts.  Everyone should have the right to believe what he or she wants.  However, if deception is used to misguide someone into a belief system, that deception needs to be exposed, giving the person the right to see it and make up his mind honestly.

            Does God change His mind or teaching?   If not, how do you explain 2 Nephi 5:20-24 where it describes the black color or skin as being a curse?

            In the teaching described, what happened to Jesus being the Way, the Truth and the Life? (John 14:6)

            This posting has been sent to the Mormon who contacted us first with the e-mail for him/her to have ample time to correct or challenge any areas of this response before placing it on the web page.

Jesus Christ is the only savior and you must put your faith in Him not any man made teaching.

End Notes

1. Whitmer, David, Address to all Believers in Christ, LDS Publication, 1887, p.73. 
2. History of the Church, Deseret Publishing Co., 1834, p.2:63.